View Full Version : Birel Monza
08-06-2005, 06:49 PM
I've been trying to figure this one out but any documentation I've read doesn't really explain it throughly...
What is the difference between buying a Birel chassis and an Monza.
I'm considering a Monza based on it being a little cheaper and I'm on a tight budget but how does it measure up?
I mean is it just a chassis thrown together to put something affordable on the market?Or is it a chassis which some research and testing has gone into?
I don't understand the reasoning given in press releases for the cheaper cost? Does it not perform as well as the Birels? Is there a lack of support? Are the components used of a lower/differnet quality somehow? Does the chassis not last that long? Is it just a cheaper option for "beginners" but the full Birel chassis are the option for experienced racers looking to win?
I'm just asking because the lower price with the pace of a Birel would be perfect for my situation but I really don't want to invest in something that will not compete at the very top.
I know my dealer locally will sell them but I've not seen any actually race.
Any comments welcome and appreciated!
08-07-2005, 12:51 AM
from what i know they are birels painted silver with ornge bodywork. as far as quality...dont worry this is birel and freeline parts and componets. nothin but the best
08-07-2005, 09:22 PM
The Monza races fine. But this is an older version of a Birel..Thus if there is a need to be at the very top, then you need a Birel.
I might try to entice one of my local racers who first bought a Monza and was very thrilled with the feel compared to his previous chassis. Then he decided to test one of our Birel karts and he was sold, he had to have a Birel rather than a Monza.
The Monza comes with cast pieces ( economy) while the MTS version of the Birel comes with billet pieces. I'm not an engineer, but what is explained to me is the heat release of the axle and components.
The old saying is you get what you pay for! In this case it is the same again. The karts are priced based on the product. Then consider the marketing value of the Birel vs. the Monza name. If Monza was the top kart, then all of the Euro Race Team drivers would be on it.. and they are not.
The purpose of the Monza is to offer an economy kart to budget minded racers looking to do club level stuff. It does the job, but Birel does it better.
Consider this.. each Birel has a pile of marketing dollars into the equation, the Monza has a very small amount of press and marketing going for it. The choice is simple. Buy the best the first time around and save yourself the mental anquish.Thanks for asking an important question.
08-08-2005, 12:24 AM
At the end of last year, my son and I were in the same situation as you ... wanted a Birel, but couldn't quite raise the cash.
Similarly, it was hard to find out exactly what the differences were. Finally we bit the bullet and got delivery of our Monza Z32a in February.
The good news is we've got it going well ... and if we could get the xyz! engine to be reliable, we'd be at the winning end of our class.
At the back end, it's got the standard Freeline brake caliper, brake disk, 50mm axle, sprocket carrier and 100 mm hubs. All quality gear. The difference though is in the 50mm bearings and the cassettes that they fit into. The cassettes are the same size as for 40mm bearings, and consequently these 50mm bearings have very much thinner shells and smaller balls than the full-size 50mm bearings/cassettes used on the Birel. I was dissappointed with that, as I hadn't anticipated it. However, some people prefer this type of bearing, because of the smaller diameter I think.
The other difference at the back is that the ride height is not adjustable. It's fixed on the high position. We needed to get the chassis lowered because my son is quite tall. We've modified the bearing hangers, but it wasn't easy, not just a case of filing slots.
At the front, the main difference is that the camber/castor is not adjustable. We've overcome this by fitting cams from another brand of kart. However, again it wasn't simply a case of bolting something on - the size of the "C" brackets that support the king pins are smaller than on the Birel, so you can't just purchase Birel cams and slot them in.
It's got aluminum wheels, but they are pretty decent ones, and again, some people prefer them to mags in some situations.
Obviously, it would not be good marketing for Birel to allow people to buy a Monza for $1000 less, bolt on $100 worth of accessories and obtain a full competition Birel. The Monza is good for us at the level we're at (been in karting for three years). We've overcome some of the limitations and we are definitely competitive. Next time we'll buy a Birel if we can afford it - simply to get straight to the solution.
Hope that helps.
John M. Skowron
08-08-2005, 09:06 AM
My Birel came with all the same MTS parts that the MTS Birels do. The only difference was that I paid extra for mag wheels. I don't think that the 50mm bearings look any different than normal, but I have not tried to replace them yet. They do make camber/caster pills for them. They are just the older king that go on the inside of the c joint than the outside like the newer Birels do now. It is basically an older R32 chassis. It performs just fine for me.
08-08-2005, 10:31 AM
Sounds like it's too late, but we have both 0.5 degree and 1.5 degere off set bushing for your monza spindles.
08-08-2005, 08:15 PM
Darn! We should have talked to you guys about pills first. Never mind, we've got nice double-cam ones now.
Would you recommend a little bit of negative camber? We haven't checked it with the driver in the kart yet, but I'm guessing that the camber will alter when he gets in the seat- depending also on whether we have the front bar in.
Will Chan didn't do too badly in the Asia-Pac CIK race in suzuka a year/two back w/ a monza.
08-10-2005, 10:20 AM
The camber definitely changes when the driver is in the kart, however, don't worry about that. As long as you always check it and set it in the same manner each time...that is your constant variable...your base line. If you would like to know how much it changes when your driver is in the kart then by all means check it and let me know ( I had this discussion with some one last week at the race track and I forgot what the number was!). I try and work from zero and decrease camber until the kart is stable in the front. If the camber is positive (new karts are built with a bit of positive in them) the kart has a tendency to be nervous at turn in. I have run up to a full centimeter (10mm) negative camber (even in the dry). Did I answer your question?
hope this helps
08-19-2005, 09:52 PM
I ran my 05'Monza at the summer shoot out in UTAH and finished second to a birel(Seesman) in Rotax Masters, but finished ahead of many other birels. It was my first race in Masters and I had the fastest time in the main. It races fine in a slight drizzle with dry setup and only 2tenths off dry time. In the main I also found out it drives in the grass pretty well. Had I known how to tune a rotax and had I not practiced on 5 year old YHC's I think my results could have been a little better. I raced my last race at BRR and ran both international and masters with the same kart, the same day. I finished 3rd in masters and 4th in international 20lbs. heavy and front tires burned to nothing. extra weight in a rotax isn't as bad as one thinks.
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