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View Full Version : Seat Placement for M32 Chassis


Greg Clarke
06-26-2005, 03:46 PM
I am looking for the Birel Recommended Seat Placement specs for the M32 chassis and have been unable to locate them. Does anyone have a link to these specs, or can post them or email them to me?

I am not sure if any addtional information is needed but I am using a Tillett T8 seat instead of the Birel seat, and I am 5'10" running a M32 chassis with a Rotax Sr. engine in the Master class.

I really appreciate any assistance.

Garry Lobaugh
06-26-2005, 09:49 PM
The fastest seat is the birel seat. Thus it is hard to extrapolate the Tillet placement. I know that Tilllet provides such information on seat placement with each seat. Garry

Greg Clarke
06-27-2005, 06:43 PM
Ok, so I really need to ask Tillett where I should place their seat.

Does Birel make a recommendation for their seat? I am willing to try it if it really makes a difference.

BTW, why is the Birel Seat faster? Is it stiffer? softer?

Greg Clarke
Rotax Masters - Birel M32

Garry Lobaugh
06-27-2005, 11:09 PM
I am not an engineer as to the why part of your question. I do know that Birel drivers usually only run the standard fibre glass seat. With the massive amount of money spent by Birel and their customers, if their was an advantage in running another seat then they would package that product in the box.

So, with great due respect to your question, I feel that Tillet does provide a very good piece of information on their product with their standard hand out in each and every seat shipped. YOu should follow their instructions.

I do have secret and inside information from another Euro company that spent days testing seats. And their testing only furthers the above posting. I'm not going to second guess the stop watch.

However, there is this one wild card, if you feel better, if feel happy about your Tillet, then certainly you will do better. There are trade offs and I'm here and you are at your location, so I can't really do any better on the forum than this. That is I can't watch your set up or your driving style.

Let me share another tid bit.. not seat related. We had a customer who claimed that the MG tire was better than the Bridgestone. All of my sons have set countless track records on Bridgestones. ( open tire at our track). SO I spent the time and money to do an independent test.(this past Saturday).

The leading driver in the class who was using MG's was offered the use of a new set of Mag Freeline rims and a set of MG's after testing his own set up on used tires. The new MG's did fine and pretty well matched his previous performance.

Then within 10 minutes we sent him out on new Mag Free Line rims and New B Bridgestones. I only allowed the guy 5 laps.. after all these were my tires and my efforts. He went .4 tenths faster on the Bridgestones. He was shocked and stunned and complained that they didn't feel right.

The first thing to recall is this very basic principle: the stop watch rules. Forget all the rest.
So with such a convincing display, I figured this guy would run the Bridgestones on race day.. but no.. he didn't, he continued with the MG tire.. NOW GO FIGURE.. I am at a loss for words. Customers do strange things even though we do our best to help.

It was a very interesting experiment in "mental torture " for me. You provide secret information, you provide proven results and answers, you offer free test materials, and the customer still goes out and defies all laws of logic. I will never ever offer this type of test again. But at least for me it was a lesson proven again.It was a proof of my original theory of Bridgestone tires..... and then it was also a re-confirmation that customers are going to do what they want to do regardless of how hard we try to assist. I'm off to bigger and better things with my life.
Garry

John M. Skowron
06-28-2005, 10:57 AM
I run a Tillet seat as well. It is the one that fits me the best and what I used before I started driving a Birel. No matter how much my local Birel dealer tried to convince me, I still chose the Tillet. I even looked at a Deepseat, but didn't like it much. (I had to look at the seat at the Expo).

I think I am going to try a Birel seat soon, just to see if it drops my lap times.

Greg Clarke
06-28-2005, 05:33 PM
Garry,

You are correct, I shouldn't argue with the stopwatch, so I will try the Birel seat. Unfortunetly my Birel seat does not have a setup guide. Is there somewhere I can download one?

Greg Clarke
Rotax Masters - Birel M32

Andy Finke
06-28-2005, 08:11 PM
Garry,

Was your test comparing the YHB to MG Yellows or Greens?

Andy

Garry Lobaugh
06-28-2005, 08:41 PM
The tire test was on MG yellow vs. Bridgestone B.

D Taylor
06-29-2005, 08:39 PM
Keep faith Garry, a few more races your test driver might just reconsider those brigestones!!!!!!!!! Just kiddin CY.

Chuck Yoder
06-30-2005, 09:10 PM
Just to clarify, there is a plan for the Bridgestone’s, and they just didn’t fit into the race plan on Sunday unless certain variables happened. With the temps in the high 90’s and a very sticky track, everyone I saw who put on “new” rubber went slower. So I made the call to run a set of used MG’s. I qualified on the pole, won the first heat, placed second in the second heat, and started from the pole in the final and won, even with a Tillet seat and MG tires. While I will agree that the stop watch is always right, I have to say that comfort runs a very close second, if your comfortable in you Kart you will drive better for longer. I will also agree that the Bridgestone “B’s” were faster on the big track, I wasn’t sure of the affect they would have on the “green” turn coming on to the straight on the short track. They might have been better, they might have been worse, but I wanted to stick with what I knew as that turn would make or break the straightaway. The Kart will need a little “tweaking” to run the Bridgestone’s and their just wasn’t time on Saturday to play with it. Look for the Bridgestone’s in the near future, but not till it fit’s the plan.
Chuck Yoder #10 HPV-4